Wednesday, April 28, 2010

Our police are out of control

Wow. This tape sounds like the Soviet Union.




Official: "We don't need any grounds."

Shopper: "Well, that's ridiculous."

Official: "That's the United States. I'm sorry. I don't know what to tell you."

Shopper: "You don't need any grounds for your actions?"

Official: "Absolutely not."

Official: "We catch 3 terrorists a day at this border crossing." (either this guy is full of shit, or we are to believe that they are catching ALL of them)

official: "Stop shaking your head. You're a Canadian citizen?"

Shopper: "what are you going to do? Shoot me?"

Official: "Was that a threat?"

"You're in a lot of trouble. You ever hear of obstruction of justice? ... As soon as you pulled away, that's assault. Do you understand how much trouble you are in right now? You're going to jail."

Fortunately, the Canadian man -- identified only as "qtronman" on YouTube -- had recorded the incident, and he later uploaded the recording, so we know the border agents are lying.

The couple were on their way to a mall in Niagara Falls, in the United States, when they were ordered out of their car by a U.S. border guard -- apparently because they didn't care for the Canadians' impatient tone when they couldn't name the specific stores they'd be visiting.

Throughout the exchange leading to the arrest, the Canadian man comes across as exasperated but cooperative -- not out-of-line for a person dealing with other adults he considers to be acting in an abusive and irrational way. He didn't bow and scrape, though, which may have antagonized the border guards.

The officials, on the other hand, sound provocative, and even as if they're enjoying their use of authority.

I always wondered what it was like to live in a country as it became a dictatorship, always wondered how the people there could be swept up by a Mussolini, a Stalin, a Hitler. Now I know. I don't like where this country is headed. The groundwork is there for a police state- all we need is the dictator to pull it all together.

10 comments:

maxwelton's braes are bonny said...

That made me sick to hear and that's coming from someone with a background in law inforcement (K9) and who has a lot of family in Canada. I hope that that border guard was fired. Totally unacceptable. Thanks for bring it to light.

Mark said...

I've gotta point out these aren't police, these are Customs/Border Patrol, and there's a *very* different set of criteria involved. What the Agents did wasn't out of line when it comes to a border (parameter) protection mandate at all.

Divemedic said...

So Mark- it is OK to lie about someone because you don't like the way they speak to you?

Mark said...

It's always been allowable for police or LEOs to lie to you, they do it all the time, they aren't under any obligation, except if under oath, to tell the truth. And that's for police and LEOs in the country. If you're entering the country from outside and you're not a US citizen you don't have any of the protections of the US Constitution. Customs can seize any and everything you have in your possession and search, they can hold you up for hours verifying information, etc. It's always been that way, we've just gotten very use to various simplifying procedures that have been used over the years.

Of course it's ironic as hell that the US border has gotten more difficult to cross while internal borders in Europe have gotten easier.

Borepatch said...

I blame a lack of proper training at the Border Control. They didn't even teach these border guards the proper way to pronounce "Papieren, bitte."

Divemedic said...

Mark:

But they police CANNOT lie in court or in an arrest affidavit. They arrested him because he allegedly "threatened" them. Did you hear any threats? I didn't.

Mark said...

Divemedic, I agree if they are under oath, which they are in court or on a sworn affidavit, then they can't and almost certainly won't lie. Neither one of those cases applied here however.

Divemedic said...

An arrest affidavit IS under oath. He plainly didn't threaten them. Did you hear a threat? With that being the case, they lied on the arrest affidavit, which is perjury.

Even for those that you consider to be our masters, that is not legal.

Mark said...

I'll have to go back and re-listen I don't recall there being any arrest affidavit, whatever that is, perhaps you're thinking arrest report which is after the fact? But there's one point I think being missed, and that is these aren't police officers, they're customs and border patrol. They don't have to arrest someone to detain them. Customs and border patrol do not have to let you in the country, they don't have to be nice, they don't have to follow the rules LEOs do.

Divemedic said...

An arrest report is made under oath, and is considered to be sworn testimony of the events that transpired before, during, and after the arrest. In other words, an affidavit. It is perjury to lie on an arrest affidavit.

Customs and border patrol have arrest powers (or they could not have arrested this man, now could they?). Call them whatever you want, they are police.

Of course they have to follow the rules that police do. Those rules are called the CONSTITUTION.

I have some excellent posts in this blog on the meaning of the Constitution, I suggest you read them.